• Mischa Brendel
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Topic: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Here are the results of the 2012 GC/TC elections. Robert normally posts the results, but he is currently away and has asked me in the position of assistant election coordinator to post the results here.

There were a couple of other things that were voted on in this ballot as well, but I am currently at work and have little time to post everything. Therefore I will now only post the results for the election of the General Coordinator and the Technical Coordinator. I will make a more detailed post tonight when I get home.

So here are the results for the GC:

Silent Hunter was the only one in the run for this position and people could choose either to vote for him or to put forward a vote of no confidence.

  • Number of people who voted: 16

  • Number of people who voted for Silent Hunter as GC: 14

  • Number of people who gave a vote of no confidence: 2

This means that Silent Hunter has been elected as General Coordinator



Now for the TC. Euan Reid was the only person in the run for this position and as with Silent people could vote for Euan or put forward a vote of no confidence.

  • Number of people who voted: 16

  • Number of people who voted for Euan Reid as TC: 14

  • Number of people who gave a vote of no confidence: 2

This means that Euan Reid has been elected as Technical Coordinator

Congratulations to both!



-Mischa, AEC

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  • Ash Leighton Plom
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Congratulations!

Ash

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  • Euan Reid
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Thank you all, and congrats to Silent! Looking forward to working with you in serving the denizens of Phoenix smile

-Euan

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  • Silent Hunter
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Thank you very much for all your votes. I formally accept my office and hope serve you to best of your ability.

Your humble and obedient servant,

Silent Hunter
General Coordinator
Phoenix Roleplaying

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  • Mischa Brendel
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

And as promised (although a little bit later), here are the results of the elections:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2441025/Phoenix%20RPG/Elections/Ballot1.jpg

You can see that the votes 'In Favor of Article' of Admin Policies 12, 13 and 14 had the majority, and the same goes for Admin Policy 10, although the difference here is only one vote.

And here are the official results for the GC/TC election once more:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2441025/Phoenix%20RPG/Elections/Ballot2.jpg

As you can see there was a large majority both for Silent Hunter and Euan Reid to become GC and TC respectively.



-Mischa, AEC

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  • Euan Reid
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

So for the policies, the article passes in all cases, but the amendment passes as well in which?

-Euan

Euan Reid's Website

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  • Mischa Brendel
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

There is a majority for the Article in all cases (Member Policy 10, Admin Policy 12, Admin Policy 13 and Admin Policy 14).

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  • Euan Reid
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

I thought, since it was a multi-vote (i.e. we could vote for the motion, amendment, or both), it was like previous times? (where passing the motion meant the legislation would be passed, and passing the amendment as well meant the amended motion would be passed)

-Euan

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  • Ash Leighton Plom
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Robert wrote, "Any voter may vote FOR the policy and AGAINST the amendment, or FOR the amendment but AGAINST the policy (thus it's like saying, 'I'm against the policy but I find the amendment more agreeable'), or FOR the policy and FOR the amendment, or simply abstain from voting. Again, any combination of both "Abstain" and "For" either the policy or the amendment cannot be counted and as such your vote for that particular policy and amendment will be discarded."

So we're not counting votes for the Policy and votes for the Amendment against one another. The figures we need are:

For the Policy vs Against the Policy
For the Amendment vs Against the Amendment
Abstentions

Is that possible? At the moment we know for example in MP10, eight out of nineteen voters voted just for the Policy (i.e. not a majority), seven out of nineteen voted for the amendment (same), and four abstained. I can't remember, but was it an option to vote against the policy or the amendment?

Ash

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  • Silent Hunter
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

If it wasn't an option to vote against, there should have been one. It may have simply gotten no votes.

Silent

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  • Euan Reid
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Perhaps we can compare to the number of voters total? Obviously there was at least 16 (since the elections weren't multi-vote), so anything with 8 or more is passed? That would put it at being all policies passed, no amendments. I have a feeling Abstain was meant to be the "no" option on policies.

-Euan

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  • Jason Andersen
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

I have to admit I was confused by it. Perhaps in the future we can have the policy as it's own (For/Against/Abstain) and the amendment a separate voting item (For/Against/Abstain)?

Or maybe we just needed a 4th option? (For Policy, not amended; For policy, amended; Against policy; Abstain)

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  • Ash Leighton Plom
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

I'll admit I was confused too.

Probably fair to let Robert get back from LOA and comment on all this.

As for abstentions, though, they never count as a vote against a thing. They are simply a way of registering an abstention. That's as much a vote against a vote against as it is a vote against (if you see what I mean; it's neither).

Ash

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  • Mischa Brendel
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

I have looked at the details of the ballot again and there were three options: you could vote 'In Favor of Article', 'In Favor of Amendment', or 'Abstain'. There were no other options. I think it's a good idea to wait for Robert to come back from LOA before we go too much into this, though.

And I agree with you Ash: abstentions shouldn't be counted as votes against something, nor should they be counted as a vote in favor of something. It is a way for people to show that they have voted, but apparently weren't too thrilled with their options.



-Mischa, DEVC

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  • Silent Hunter
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Mischa Brendel wrote:

I have looked at the details of the ballot again and there were three options: you could vote 'In Favor of Article', 'In Favor of Amendment', or 'Abstain'. There were no other options. I think it's a good idea to wait for Robert to come back from LOA before we go too much into this, though.

And I agree with you Ash: abstentions shouldn't be counted as votes against something, nor should they be counted as a vote in favor of something. It is a way for people to show that they have voted, but apparently weren't too thrilled with their options.

-Mischa, DEVC

I definitely agree with Ash and Mischa - parliamentary precedent is clear on the matter that abstentions do not count either way. We also established this as precedent in the old country.

My two cents on this matter is that those votes need to be re-run.

- GC

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  • Jason Andersen
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

I'd agree with Silent here.

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  • Euan Reid
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

No option to vote against would be an argument for a re-run in my book as well. Perhaps it would be best to separate them into "policy" and "amendment" votes of "yay/nay/abstain" too, for clarity.

-Euan

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  • Silent Hunter
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Also, we probably went to look at the parliamentary procedure manuals on how to handle these amendments in a simultaneous ballot. The British methodology is to vote on amendments then on the final package as amended.

Silent

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  • Ash Leighton Plom
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Yeah. In Local Government at Council first a proposal is made, any amendment then proposed, the amendment is voted on "yay/nay/abstain", and then the proposal (amended, if the amendment passed, unamended if the amendment failed) is voted on "yay/nay/abstain". Our Admin Policy 9.5 does actually say referendum votes should be yes/no/abstain. Also clauses 7, 8, and 9 are relevent here.

One of the clauses says all votes, regardless of outcome should be recorded. I'd forgotten that. That's worth remembering!

Ash

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  • RLongtin
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Right, thanks for the reminder to double-check the stats. I realize the #'s are a bit confusing for the referendums but I'll add some clarity on this tomorrow. I'll need to go in and look at the ballots to be certain nobody combined abstains with others. It's versus total voters btw.

So Ash has it right, although there were no separate options because it's total number who clicked the amendment versus total number who didn't, and total number who clicked the policy versus total number who didn't - abstain in this case is really just a placeholder so that I can keep them all set as required so nobody messes up their ballot. But as I say I'll shed some light on this tomorrow and have a look at the numbers to report the results.

And of course, if it was too confusing we can pass everything as is (if passable) and then do a re-vote with more clarity.

~Robert

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  • Ash Leighton Plom
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

My feeling is that the motions didn't meet requirement of Admin Policy 9.5 and are therefore illegal. I should really have thought of that when we opened the voting (or, indeed, reminded you of it before you prepared the ballot), but I think I was rushing and winding down at the end of my term. :-s

Ash

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  • Mischa Brendel
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

I think this unclarity also warrants a page which gives some general information about amendments, articles, things like that. We could include a link to that page each time we have an election, so that people can look up any information about these things so we can prevent any unclarities in oncoming elections.



-Mischa

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  • Silent Hunter
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Oh, definitely.

- GC

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  • RLongtin
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Well it may be fairly transparent though the ballot does meet a yes/no/abstain methodology with the right to click, not click, or instead click abstain. Although I think we should make it a policy to not include amendments to motions along with the motions in the same vote because that is where the necessity for manipulating the presentation of it is. Amendment-combination-motion really complicates the matter with our current medium for our Voting Booth.

Once we have our own voting booth setup, if we're keen on presenting amendments alongside motions, it might be more manageable but with the current booth it's rather complicated...do-able, but complicated. I mean even the matter of "don't click abstain in addition to either of the other checkboxes" and having to go back through to see if any voters did that or not is an extra task that was inevitable and BallotBin.com doesn't cater to these things so it all has to be done manually.

Still trying to get settled back in (and trying to correct jet lag), but I have the day off from work so I'll be attending to posts and responsibilities throughout the day. Expect more on this soon...

~Robert

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  • RLongtin
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Re: 2012 GC/TC Election results

Mischa Brendel wrote:

I think this unclarity also warrants a page which gives some general information about amendments, articles, things like that. We could include a link to that page each time we have an election, so that people can look up any information about these things so we can prevent any unclarities in oncoming elections.

-Mischa

Right, although correct me if I'm wrong but was it the volume or the wording that people felt was difficult? See this page for the general information about the amendments, including how one votes FOR or AGAINST or ABSTAIN on each item... Voters were continually directed to this page from the ballot itself so I don't think it was a matter of making the information available.

As I said in the last post, the complexity of combining amendments and motions inevitably made the explanation both wordy and lengthy. I can't claim to be skilled at being concise in my explanations so naturally if anyone feels there is a lack of clarity (especially before, during, or after a particular vote/election) I'm always happy to receive questions, concerns, etc. about anything concerning the Voting Booth, Votes, Elections, etc.

~Robert

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